Posts by moggy lover

As any spy worth his salt will tell you, the two dead giveaways are the shape of the ears and the way you walk. Like a fingerprint, we all have individual walks.

Remember to go as an Amish brother, with long hair to cover the ears, along with a beard.

Oh, and another thing. Put a pebble in your shoe, to walk with a limp.

You can win [or lose] as many matches as you want, and no one will know - except of course for the 400 odd of us on JWD. We can always negotiate a renumeration for our collective silence.

Coming to think of it, it might be cheaper to get disfellowshipped.

Cheers

4

1914 Generation Doctrine

by averyniceguy in

when did the watchtower teach 1914 generation doctrine for the 1st time?

moggy lover

To the best of my knowledge the 1874 thing was replaced by the 1914 thingee in 1925. Which would be a convenient time to date the 1914 generation doctrine, in my opinion.

Of course, like a combination of snake oil salesmen and conjurers, they have advanced several apologetics for what the "1914 generation" might mean. Not all of which, as is the latest one, being understandable to the R&F.

Cheers

32

Who is going to finally expose the WTS for what it really is?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

jw
friends

the walls of the wts are finally being cracked but nobody is breaking down the walls.we have the internet exposing all their lies,elders resigning,no new members beside families being baptized, contributions dwindling,teens leaving in droves,and layoffs at the wts headquarters .still,the walls remain intact.the 800 lbs.

gorilla is missing to break down the wall.. we know in 1975 many members left but the wts wall was easily repaired.who will finally break the walls down and how will it happen?

what will it take for a mass exodus?.

moggy lover

I don't think any one person or even any group acting as one person will accomplish this. But having said that, I would rather be on our side of the fence than the WTS's..

The position facing the WTS is similar to that faced by the 16th century RC church as it braced itself for the intellectual onslaught brought about by the information revolution which the invention of printing produced. The RC Church at that time used strong arm tactics such as the Spanish Inquisition, [Oooh I asked for this: Did someone mention the Spanish Inquisition? - Enter a menacing, gaudily garbed, Michael Palin] But their greatest support came from the ordinary R&F who, convinced of the Church's divine right to the exclusive approval of God, rallied to cause. This stemmed the hemorrage, but irrevocably diminished their influence.

Showing that they have learned nothing from history, the WTS is reacting to the information explosion brought about by the internet in the same way. With starchamber tactics, and because of an even greater desire to control the way their R&F receive information, with pressure from the elders.

Funny about the R&F though. Just as in the 16th century, we are seeing the fanatical zeal of those who are convinced, possibly as a result of the jhoover syndrom, [ie that simply pronouncing this tri-syllabic word ensures divine authority in their lives] to stand by their theological masters. We will always see a reservoir of believers who are content to abdicate all thinking to those they consider as having the exclusive backing of God.

But statistics don't lie. There are more of us than there are of them!! More people have been able excercise their own insights into the facts and abandoned their flawed leaders than those who by blind obedience, have stayed on.

With an average membership of some 6M world wide, well over that number are ex-followers of the WTS. As the Net becomes more accessable to the majority, the bankruptcy of WT belief will be all that more evident.

To the great fear of the WT leadership, the tide is in our favour. And we are all contributing.

Ever noticed the number of newbies on JWD lately?

Cheers

11

Has the GB of the WTS lost it

by bobld in

oct km 06 literature offer for january 2007,se,pe or any book published prior to 1991.this offer is repeated in nov.,dec km 06 and jan km 07.in my library i have a number of wts publications prior to 1991,included are re 1988 editions.how can i in good conscience place this book with the public.when the sept.km 06 has 70 corrections for this publication.since the km is for private use by j.w.

in good standing i cannot make any adjustment to my copy of the publication w/o breaking copyright laws and/or losing my privileges.are the gb of the wts asking me to lie or mislead the public with an outdated publication or am i to destroy my old publications..no that would be wasting wts literature.. beginning in january 2007 we will study re at the congregation book study.the bro/sis are using a soft cover edition of the re book.however,in the first 3 lessons there are a number of discrepancies between the soft cover book and the hard cover(which i got) with the sept km 06 corrections.. here is a list.

chapter 1 para 7 old..why should another book on revelation be published at this present time.

moggy lover

To the best of my knowledge, this isn't the first time that they have done this.

Back in 1925, JFR changed the WT teaching of Christ having come invisibly from 1874 to 1914, yet late into the 1930s the WT were encouraging their followers to offload many of their older publications on the public, even though they taught, from a WT standpoint, such heretical doctrines as the 1874 invisible return!!

Here was a chance to rid themselves of unwanted paper, and make a quick buck as well. Which of course, the WTS being a business after all, is the bottom line.

Your "conscience" doesn't count, since the WTS, with its collective jhoover approved conscience, has decided for you, so just go out and get rid of the damn things, keep your mouth shut, and, most important of all, put the cash in the money box.

Cheers

31

144000, Where did Russell get his idea, and what do other religions believe

by jwfacts in

where did russell get the notion that the 144k are a literal number, and that they are the rulers in heaven?

what do other religions believe this group to represent?.

what did john really mean?.

moggy lover

Although the details may vary among various Evangelical Bible groups some facts we can garner about their views on the 144k are:

1 They are not in existence at the present. Their presence is mentioned in Rev ch 7, which begins with the words: "After these things" So, evidently it is only after some events, which are mentioned in Ch 6, that the 144k emerge. [Interestingly, in the Rev book, which gives an exhaustive discussion of this section, in order to suggest the on-going existence of the 144k since 33AD, these three words are artfully ignored. When, in conversation with various WT followers I mentioned these words, requiring a justification for why these 144k can possibly exist "before these things" the reply I was given was that Rev does not always mean what it says. "After these things" can be a symbol for "before these things" With such elastic logic, one can only suggest that the Bible can be made to say any thing]

2 Most agree that Ch 6 tells of the opening of the Great Tribulation, which even the Rev book agrees with.

3 So, somtime after the start of the Great Tribulation, whoever these 144k are, they will begin what is called a "Great Tribulation ministry" ie a preaching work world-wide where the message of the Kingdom of Christ will be preached to all. This and not a current flawed work by the WTS, is the fulfillment of Matt 24:14, which entire Ch is devoted to the future events of the GT

4 The details are not agreed on by all, but these 144k, are indeed a literal number, and literal Jews, evidently young unmarried men, from the various tribes mentioned. It needs to be remembered that Protestant Evangelical groups who still advocate a future blessing for the Jewish people, do not believe, like the WTS believes, that the 12 tribes have become lost. It is just that the means of identifying them are. An archaeological find, an exposure of documents brought about by some earthquake, a discovery in some long lost library etc, could easily provide a means to identifying these tribes.

5 Some Evangelical groups believe that when the GT begins, the Rapture takes place, removing all True Christians from the scene. [Pre-Tribulationists] This will require the work of "born again" Jews to do the preaching work during this time. Some believe that during the 7 year period that marks the GT, the Rapture only occurs at the mid-point, ie after three and a half years, so these 144k Jews will assist the Christans in the preaching work till the rapture, when they will continue on their own.[Mid-Tribulationists]

6 Whatever the details, as a consequence of this evalgelizing work, a number of "Tribulation Saints" will be saved, who will end up "before the throne" as a great crowd. They will be the ones who cared for Christ's "brothers" [the 144k] during the GT [Matt 25:40], and who will gain the approval of Christ for doing so.

These are the views that are held by those who prefer a literalist, futurist interpretation of Rev. Other Evangelicals who hold to either a preterite or historical interpretation, [sometimes referred to as Amillennialists] feel that the 144k "Jews" are a symbolic number representing several things. The most common view is that they represent the Church down through the centuries.

Real Christianity allows for a variety of interpretations, all compatible with the understanding of what the Holy Spirit leads one to believe. Unlike the haughty, pompous, attitude of the WTS whch insists on its own imperatives, I have yet to see one Evangelical "disfellowship" another simply for holding a different opinion.

Cheers

11

Divorce fighting

by DaCheech in

jw
friends

i have a question for anyone interested in debating this:.

when a married couple wants to separate, why is it relevant in court on the reasons for it?.

if the hubsband is caught cheating, how does telling the court make a diffrence?.

moggy lover

Not only do different states within the USA have different laws, but different countries do as well. In Australia, no reason for the breakdown of marriage is needed, only that by mutual agreement the breakdown has occured.

Cheers

37

Gilead

by AllTimeJeff in

i will use my other thread today to talk about gilead.. one must apply for several years to show they are serious, unless you know a gb member or another heavy in the service dept.

a couple first gets a long app in the mail usually after several years of applying at the dc.

it is over 115 questions.

moggy lover

Thanks for your experiences, made great reading.

Being born of mixed British-Indian parentage, and having lived my early life in India, where I beacme a WT follower, I knew of this young lad, back in the 60s, who as a special pioneer, was invited to Gilead. Damn fellow promptly met with and married a local lass, and instead of returning to India applied to stay on in America. And suceeded!! The WTS were furious, but unable to do anything.

Do they still carry on with these types-antitypes? I knew this was one of Freddy's pet beliefs. But I thought that with his passing, the leadership would see more sense. Echoing the previous poster, don't they put any stress on CTR? I thought the Elijah-Elisha configuration was CTR-JFR. Obviously they have changed.

Did you ever meet any of the GB? Did they give any of the lectures? How well stocked, if at all, were the librar[ies] Were you able, given time. to do any real research into any particular doctrine, such as the 607 BC nonsense? Were you supervised when you used these library facilities?

Thanks once again.

Cheers

9

My Latest JW Blog

by Abandoned in

i have written another blog about the damage i've suffered from being a jw.

it's located at http://blog.myspace.com/improg.. here is the content if you don't feel like going to myspace.. i didn't realize until this year, how much baggage i'm still carrying around from my many years associated with the jehovah's witnesses.. from my experience, i believe that organization is both a cult and destructive.

there are a lot of reasons why i say this, but one of the primary ones is related to the view they paint of god.

moggy lover

Congratulations on the marvellous effort you are putting in. I have read your blog and it is great. The incredible thing about something like this is that you probably will never know who you have given that final impulse to decide to leave this degenirate organisation. You will never ever meet them, nor speak with them, but yet you can gain the satisfaction of knowing that that is what its all about.

Makes it all wothwhile. Need more like you.

Cheers

18

Why Matthew 24 can NEVER be fulfilled.....

by kid-A in

lets see.

by watchtower theology, millions if not billions of dead people will be resurrected in jehoobie's funland...... assuming 6 million dubs survive the fiery wrath of lord jehoobie, they will represent a tiny minority in the new world order!.

according to the borg, all of these newly risen dead will require a "witness", meaning, the kingdom ministry will by necessity be in full swing,.

moggy lover

The anonymous writers of the two-volume "Inspired" books have evidently spent a great deal of time and mathematical effort to work the problem out.

Given that 6M will survive into the new system, and giving them 100 years to get familiar with their surroundings and have lots of babies, the population should more than double by the end of the first century. Now if we recreate the dead at a simple rate of just 3% of the total living population, leaving 33 people to 'reducate' each one brought back, it would take just 300 years to bring back every one of the 20B who ever lived.

There are just some teenzy weenzy problems that our heroes have neglected to consider:

1 The most incorrigible, brought back to "life" at the end of the recreation program, because they would need to have a well regulated and ordered society to receive them, will in fact be the very ones who are treated unfairly. Needing the maximum time to rehabilitate, they will be robbed of at least 400 years of the millennium. The survivors into this well ordered universe, will have had the benefit of the full 1000 years, and thes guys, the one most needing this full time period, will get only 60% of the millenium. How fair is that?

2 Then there is the question, as old as the first human being, of boys being boys and girls being girls. Suppose you get this living girl falling in love with this real stud of a resurrected fellow, and they want to marry, which is the right of all people who love each other. But they cannot. It is Verboten. Because the resurrected don't marry. So - What? Will they wear some sort of yellow star or something? You will still have the same old social tensions of this old system, of at least two groups in society. The "ressies" and the "lifers" Seperated foever.

3 According to the "Inspired" book, there will be plenty of room for all the 20B who be cloned back to life. Take the vast arid regions of the world and re-irrigate them and with these you will have beautiful garden-like estates for all. The problem is How? To re-irrigate these vast territories [like the Sahara] will require the building of dams, thus needing the creation of cement factories, electrical manufacturing, chemical depots, skilled labour, etc. Imagine the skies becoming polluted all over again.

4 Clothing everyone will be a problem as well. Ever notice the well cut Saville Row pants and crisp starched shirts worn by the vacuous models displayed on the back covers of the WTs showing off the benefits of living in this new system? Notice the well tailored gowns and brightly coloured dresses worn by the equally vacuous females? With their zips and buttons? Manufacturing something as simple as a zip or a button requires a complex network of manufacturing and disribution, not to mention items such as management, and marketting. And you still expect the skies to be pristine blue?

Sorry chumps. You cant have it both ways. Either you live in a pristine enviornment with everyone running around in fig leaves [Imagine what thats going to do to all that free flowing testarone of the lusty lads and lasses], or you have a reproduction of this same old good old world of today.

Cheers